frustrated with both core and knots
would like to see a conservative well reviewed and maintained third option
will do my best to make that a reality
until then i will simply not upgrade my nodes
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Looking forward π«‘
The hard part is meritocrasy: with guys of influence like yourself, it be more prudent to assume subjugation.
Keep us posted π
Or maybe admit the central attack vector for Bitcoin has ALWAYS been the Core Devs. And now theyβre persona non grata - fully unacceptable or not welcome.
I disagree strongly with you. Half-measures are not a debate here.
We all know a handful of people who could change the code was never tenable. We need to stop making excuses, and start deciding IF there is a way going forward that isnβt Ossification right now, at this point.
And I donβt see a successful discussion about that happening, honestly, because Plebs donβt control Bitcoin anymore.
Ossification is the only option. Trust no one.
Now we're talking! Good.
I've somewhat landed on the idea that maybe the single biggest mistake of satoshi was to have a first party implementation of bitcoin. Maybe if he never passed on the control of core and abandoned the repo when he left, it would be better off. You'd have all the contributors at the time disperse into a few different projects that fork from core, but forced to maintain consensus with each other.
I realized this with nostr. It's genuinely the main thing separating it from all other "decentralized" networks. If fiatjaf had a nostr client, it would define what nostr is. Every normie looks for a "default app" for bitcoin, as with nostr. The absence of one is what makes it decentralized. They are immediately faced with the choice and realize that there isn't a easy default thing they can stay on. No app is more valid than another, the network is the rules they abide by to interoperate with each other. Everyone instinctively saw btc core as the point of centralization that it was, no one ever made that argument for bitcoin wallets, or nostr clients.
There has long been this propaganda that it's good that there aren't alternatives to core, and it's not a massive point of centralization to have a single repo define the whole network and this op_return debacle has just broken that propaganda. It took a massively unpopular update to wake people up to it, but theres finally popular demand for alternative implementations that follow consensus.
Luke Jr is not someone who should inherit the throne of bitcoin stewardship. He's not someone who can do what core did, managing a project and collaborating with others to maintain a whole network. But he can absolutely find a place offering one of many implementations for bitcoin, that people who like his software can run, as long as he doesn't do something that pisses them off. He should never develop for a majority of the network, but 5-10% of the plebs using his software poses no risks.
I'm fully on the filter side of this debate and even I'd admit that I'd rather have the current core team, than to have Luke lead core, or for knots to take the place of core today. But that's not happening. The most important thing right now is for there to emerge serious, responsibly led alternatives to core. And for that reason I am excited by this announcement.
Thank you for that perspective
Who appears more virtuous?
Stay humble and stack zaps β‘οΈ
Not upgrading is a solid choice. My plan was to continue with my Satoshi v27.0/ node indefinitely, but I made the switch to Knots because the configuration flexibility is superb.
A third option with more devs would be ideal, but I am happy with a single dev with a heavily scrutinized/audited source code by serious bitcoiners.
My new settings cut op_return in half and minimized the time my node relays free transactions. Getting garbage off the chain should be a top priority for any serious bitcoiner.
btcd
What do you have against Knots now???
Thank you for not running the core V30 malware.
Maximum decentralization is good for Bitcoin.
> Conservative and well reviewed.
That is Core to be frank.
Should it ideally reimplement consensus, or use core's engine?
Same here
View quoted note β
Let's go π
There's nothing worse about Core than it has been for years now. Nothing changed.
Luke and Ocean are retarded anyway.
Also, why is everyone pretending libbitcoin doesnt exist?
You wanna support something meaningful? Fund Eric Voskuil.
What is lib bitcoin
Knots is means to an end.
As soon as the goal is met, of making Core something for the market not run (assuming they're sticking with their decisions), then I'll move to a more suitable node other than Knots that's basically the same but with a better team of good talent and sound mind and character.
What do you think about a grant or training program specifically focused on libbitcoinkernel?
Probably should run it by whoever is working on that these days (the charlatan?)
Should I care about this. I just wanna stay humble and stack sats. Is that ok?
solid plan
Yes for sure
I had a bunch of people at my Meetup that have no idea this is going on and Iβm not telling them.
Go have a nap. You'll feel better
Burring your head in the sand is always a solid plan. π Nothing can go wrong.
True !
"I don't believe a second, compatible implementation of Bitcoin will ever be a good idea"
He was right about this.
Its hard enough keeping bitcoin backwards compatible.
This is how eventually a subset of users get rekt.
Believe me when I say this is difficult, but read udiβs post
Is the implication meant to be that Bitcoin Core isn't conservative, well reviewed, and/or well maintained? If so, why do you think that?
Or is your desire to have additional implementations that are conservative, well reviewed, and well maintained? If so, do you think that's a better use of limited developer talent than focusing on making Bitcoin Core better?
When I read your post, I get the feeling that you think about "Core" and "Knots" as teams that each move with a single shared purpose, as if under the direction of an individual. That might be true for Knots, which effectively has a single developer, but it's not how I see the Bitcoin Core project, whose contributors are often in disagreement with each other (if usually only about the best way to achieve a particular goal). Maintaining that environment where independent contributors can easily collaborate, are free to express their differing opinions, and can create single-topic software forks (like PT's librerelay or the BIP148 activation client) if they feel out of alignment with the other devs seems to me like a better use of scarce talent than creating more implementations for the purpose of having more teams.
thinking something similar to the latter but with more maintainers
Core used to be like that and even the knots apologists like Bitcoin Mechanic say they want to just submit a pr to core and have a good relationship where these ideas can be discussed and worked out. Knots is just the fallback escape hatch. I think core should prioritize working with a large section of devs and should try not to give the middle finger to the more prominent devs with big followings lol
The more the merrier
Puts last year's discussions on ossification into context really with all the squabbles.
Be fascinating to see what would come out if all this energy were directed instead to L2/L3 solutions and additional work on mining and hash power decentralisation. Humans are similar to electricity grids - vast energy losses in trasmission!
Exactly. I'm fine staying on v28 for a few years
Go to 29. You may not get 2 years out of 28.
I am using it with LND - works great, recommended π
if this is the best drama we have u know we are struggling this cycle
NOTE OF THE YEARπ«‘
There is no technical basis to oppose lifting the OP_RETURN limit in mempool policy. The amount of emotional thinking in this space is wild.
Unless of course you are not a jew and do not like the child porn on your home servers.
Just go buy BSV and leave BTC alone.
And I will support it.
Let's go!
Bitcoin is just another victim of the old EMBRACE, EXTEND, EXTINGUISH corporate playbook, a documented strategy used by tech giants.
"Maxis" were maybe the first (unwillingly?) actors of this playbook
Good luck.
I'll be upgrading to v30.
You enjoy the child porn as well? Nice!
Door number three is the status quo.
Best...ππππππ«Ά
Libbitcoin enters the chat
3rd option would be cool roll back Taproot and fix OP_RETURN at 21 bytes.
hope you are just trolling.
Satan Core 1.0 is looming .. I sh*t you not.
What versions are people running?
View quoted note β
fence straddling? π
Get Eric Voskuil on citadel or listen to his Bitcoin takeover interviews. The project is solid but, from his words, hasn't taken any third-party funding.
As a dev, libbitcoin is ok to get running and hack on, but it's missing the type of project management that core has. It's not really possible to find out what needs to be done, unless it's behind closed doors. All their comm channels seem dead
Libbitcoin is the way.
Why?
Core solution is just accepting that Ordinals are inevitable in the chain and minimize damage, allowing people to use OP_RETURN as preferred option to upload this data.
Instead of storing in Witness or another solutions that increase UTXO set, that will be an increase in RAM requirement for nodes, a true menace for decentralization.
Do it @ODELL ! The more implementation options we have, the more decentralized bitcoin becomes. This is the way.
Do we have any third implementation that would simply be conservative?
Just a v28 with only patches in case of network-threatening bugs?
I'd like to support that kind of third implementation. Might as well use those sats while they still hold some value...



