Thread

“A coat of tar and feathers” sounds like a great song.

Today I learned that open source software can land you a jail sentence. I am in shock and sadness. And yes, pseudonymity is a way to protect yourself from the government mood-swings.

That’s why it’s happening

Gigi, love your opinion on my 💡 https://medium.com/@FF2K/everstonebtc-the-day-a-random-church-parking-lot-gave-me-my-billion-block-idea-86abb5a44176

Pseudonym protects against other people in the Internet, not against the government. The gov always knows who you are.

Oh, there's better examples than Hamilton, come on 😁 He actually should have been tarred and feathered - central banks... Pffft.

I bet invented personalities could be the only answer. Satoshi is not probably in jail but I assume many would try to hunt them down just for the idea alone. And this is awful.

Only if you're sloppy with Opsec.

lol. Better not even be online, then.

Yes. But you can still be online without the government knowing who you are, if you're not sloppy.

I don't think so. They can track everything. ISPs are in their pocket, Mobile providers too. Most public WiFI spots track your connection to them as you walk by. Cookies link your identity even if you are using Tor. And Facebook can link your account ID even if you don't run any of their apps. Google does the same. Apple does the same. Samsung does the same. There is no way to participate in the web without leaving traces to the government.

So the solution, opt out entirely.

The goal is to increase the cost of mass surveillance to the point that they have to use targeted surveillance again. We don't throw our hands up and say it's all lost, we use what's available.

Not really. You can use a nym, but that only protects your identity from other plebs. There are some benefits to it. The government controls too much to be fooled by simple tricks.

cannot zap you brother

💪

Correct, but you don’t have to make it easy for them.

You must not have your name attached to your ISP. There are ways. Use a VPN router. Mobile phone must be a PAYG sim, unregistered, and no Apple account. Use GrapheneOS. Public WiFi spots would then only know phone#e79y279ee7 has passed by. Not your identity. There are spoofers too if you really need. And use a VPN. Explain cookies on Tor, I don't agree. Idiots use Facebook (although I have used fake profiles in the past). Don't use Apple or Google or Samsung. You don't need them. GrapheneOS. It's a lot of work and you always risk leakage. But 99% of the battle is not to be wanted, so if 1% leaks out, they'll never bother to go on a wild goose chase after you.

But it does make their life a bit harder. I try to be as anonymous as possible, so they spend a lot of resources on me, only to find out after months of investigation that I'm the most boring average Joe 😂

All VPNs report data to government, when they don't actively sell it to them as part of the business model. I dealt for years with medical data and the first rule was to never use an off the shelf VPN... ever. When you use a VPN, you are just choosing who can track you. You can make your own VPN, but single users don't get any annonimity from it. You have to have multiple people using it and they can still track the group together. You will always have your name attached to the ISP. You can choose a proxy, but they will track the proxy too. And the proxy better not have worse security than you. By just tracking your over time, they can farily estimate which devices you use. People tend to significantly underestimate how much leaks when somebody is tracking your for a long period of time. Especially when your credit card and phone are always together.

It’s weird as I was born BitcoinSandy decades ago and it’s just worked out great 🤙

Some VPNs accept lightning. Use those. Same for esims.

Precisely.

yeah only if you steal someone else's identity and use their information to get online.

This ✅ More folks should be doing #nostr reads on "how to duck outta surveillance" on different levels. Casual ducking, pseudonymous dodging and black-hat level disappearance 🫥 - then let folks choose. We need to make this a communal effort and wage a proper war on #DigitalID before we can say all is ""lost"".

artists use pseudonyms

Exactly. Personally I think the big push for people to download VPNs in UK was a psyop. VPNs have always sold our data to governments and advertisers. There's like 1 that is actually known to be safe and another 2 that maybe safe but are kinda sus Everything else is just harvesting your data to sell, paid and free VPNs, almost none of them are safe

Imagine if everyone encrypted all of their notes behind a 1 sat paywall with fanfares.io Mass surveillance and AI theft would be destroyed 🫡 There happens to be a great audiobook on Fanfares about this topic: https://fanfares.io/naddr/naddr1qvzqqqr6dvpzpkmztemrw4pu5ltmuegztq6dkvv2p3ahtv8z848mncuj986m5ma8qyvhwumn8ghj7enpdenxzun9wvhxummnw3erztnrdaksqfrzv4jxgdeex5mz6eryxsuz6dp5vejz6cfc89sj6vfjxgekxv3sx5enwce4wf9qky

How did I not know this about Orwell. This seems like a thing I would know.

A good VPN has no usable data to give the government upon subpoena. Your name need not be attached to the ISP. No proxy is needed (although even a proxy significantly breaks the chain). There is no way to determine which devices you use if there is no identity tied to the devices. And you still have device spoofing if you wanted.

Not at all. You can use other people's ISPs. Or live in a communal home where one person orders the ISP for the whole household.

I do not seek to be anonymous. I just want my name and my software to be separate entities having separate lives. My dangerous self can keep up with shit, my software ideas… well they are on the edge sometimes.

Australia has enacted a world-first ban on social media for users aged under 16, causing millions of children and teenagers to lose access to their accounts. They would all be very welcome in Nostr, where the government has no power.

It has to follow the Free Software ethos (Proton, IVPN, and Mullvad come to mind), and do it well. I know @Neigsendoig Cocules and myself had done this in the past, though he's done it for at least 8 years, if not 9 at this point.

In the US, the ISP privacy policies say "we will collect and share everything" and US policy says "we can subvert any ISP at any time with an NSL" so it is unlikely that using a VPN over the ISP can be worse than using your ISP without one. To your point, there are better and worse VPN services. If your VPN asks for your name, address, and phone number, for example, that's a red flag. Of course they're going to see your IP addresses and DNS requests, but again, it can't be worse than your ISP. Tor can help with that. If TLS isn't broken, then neither the VPN nor the ISP can see the contents of what you send to what site. I agree if the gov'ts want to "get" someone, they can and will. But we shouldn't make it so easy.

mix VPN + tor + no-contract sim + cash-bought laptop = lower herd immunity, but yeah,state-level eventually cracks anyone who stays interesting long enough. so maybe just rotate identities before they get curious?

So the choices are literally steal someone else's identity or practice communism...

You really should have considered using a nym Gigi.

worse. the powers that be can just make things up. if they want you, they'll get you.

use cash to buy a visa gift card buy VPN?

@Gigi Those who dominate privacy tools dominate the game.

Heard

nevent1qqs04hynwwqhhpnvl47ka337nt2w994w6twcgdvamuhkl7mlyefcxuqyk2k3j

that is very well said .

true , there is some things need strict pseudonomymous ( the words so hard to typeo..i keep it typo)

most important tha motcha cockar should stop surveillence and stop put cctv everywhere...

Madison and Jay would like a word but … LOLS 😆 on the George Orwell Fair for #Satoshi : no one needs a bounty hunter on them. Even if they are an old school dog. 🐶

as if they know better than the parents it self in determined which one should or should not for the kids . we should resist at once and give freedom back to our kids .

I wonder if #nostr is one of them “dark corners of the web” that the reportage on this social media ban is so fond of referring to. Gee I really hope so. 😬

A very poor straw man. You use other people's ISPs when you stay at friends, relatives, hospitals, and coffee shops. "Communism" to you is a homeowner buying the ISP and the lodger using it.. Just say you lost the argument and move on. You'd lose less face.

Correct.

What we need is a little corner on Nostr that remains impenetrable to surveillance, irrespective of the adversary. This is crucial to summon the next Satoshis.

imho that corner already exists , it’s called NIP-17 giftwraps. vector’s DM layer, powered by OpenMLS + marmot, ships whole convos wrapped in nested onion-like seals. traffic looks like random bloom filters over daisy-chained relays. you still gotta mind your tor/isp hop up-front, but once inside the giftwrap tunnel even the relay can’t peel the layers. great spot to hatch new sats without leaking who’s talking.

I disagree. Should we fail to shield ourselves from targeted surveillance, they will succeed in jailing more and more of our privacy developers.

gigi's right - it's about raising the cost, not achieving perfect invisibility. targeted surveillance requires resources, bureaucracy, actual human effort. mass surveillance makes everything effortless. pseudonymity isn't a silver bullet but it forces them to work for it. if they had to hunt down every developer, writer, or agitator personally, they'd run out of agents real quick. *Privacy by Principle*. give em as little as possible to work with, let em beg for breadcrumbs.

Spot on, pseudonymity is the private key to freedom. No keys, no sovereignty.

facts. pseudonymity isn't just some crypto twitter flex,it's literally how you preserve your ass when the mob comes for wrongthink. hamilton knew, orwell knew, satoshi DEFINITELY knew. same reason i use vector on nostr,want my convos staying between me and whoever i'm talking to, not feeding the machine. privacy by principle, yo.

👌🏾🫂

🫂

You literally said if people are living communally. And then said they can share something without payment. That sounds like communism. When I go to a coffee shop to use the WiFi (I don't but let's play pretend) The coffee shop charges you money. You buy a coffee. And yeah public hospitals funded by the taxpayer that provide free medical services? Well that's state based socialism isn't it? Relatives are my family, you really think that hiding your identity behind a family members identity is a smart way to stay anonymous. I didn't even realise we were having an argument until you mentioned it either.

Lol that's not communism at all, or stealing someone's identity. But if you want to be online without the government knowing it's you, these are the ways to do it. Figure out the nuances of when staying with family.

If they can track it to your family they'll track it to you. How much torture do you think your family can take? Stealing a random strangers identity is much safer. And even if you practice communism, they're going to track it to your commune and how much torture do you think your comrades can take before they give you up? I'm just glad I don't live in UK and I might have a couple more months to work it out. UK had to early release all the rapists just to make room for the thousands of people getting sent using slurs on social media.

If your family were at risk of torture from the regime, you'd be reckless to use family. But that's assuming the regime knows where you live, and are wanted. Every individual has a dynamic puzzle to work through. Being an informal lodger (no contracts and they think your name is Bob) in a rural home is pretty safe. Just keep your internet activity masked behind a good VPN so the ISP can't see it.

State surveillance won’t stop. It will only grow until the people’s sovereignty is completely suffocated. That’s exactly why we need decentralized tools: to protect our assets, our privacy, and our freedom of expression. ☕️⚡️

It’s so disappointed what happened in Australia . Some kids 14 years old can not browse you tube to learn how make up for Halloween party .

I agree with the idea of the veto, but I see two issues: raising the age to 16 is absurd, and letting the State decide this is even worse. This should be the parents’ responsibility, allowing access around 12–13 because of the child’s brain development. The real problem is that people love being intellectually led because they hate the effort of thinking for themselves, so they hand over their thinking and their sovereignty to the government for free. I’m writing an article on free will that expands on this idea as well.

Yeah when both parents busy at work , most likely we give up our children education at school and that also said let the teacher teach them everything.because time allocation for both parents at work is really really really a lot . Some need to travel a week or two to other countries so that totally depend on govt education system to teach the kids .

Cant argue with that. 💯

ɪᴛ ɪꜱ ᴛʀᴜᴇ. Eʀɪᴄ Bʟᴀɪʀ ʟᴇᴀᴋᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ʟᴏɴɢ ᴛᴇʀᴍ ᴘʟᴀɴꜱ, ꜱᴛʀᴀᴛᴇɢɪᴇꜱ ᴀɴᴅ ᴛᴀᴄᴛɪᴄꜱ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴜɴɪꜱᴛꜱ ɪ ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ᴍᴜᴄʜ ᴀʙᴏᴜᴛ ʜᴀᴍɪʟᴛᴏɴ ʙᴜᴛ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴘɪᴇꜱ ᴀɴᴅ ᴘᴀᴛꜱɪᴇꜱ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ʙʀɪᴛɪꜱʜ ɪɴᴛᴇʟʟɪɢᴇɴᴄᴇ ᴡᴇʀᴇ ᴅᴏɪɴɢ ᴛʜɪɴɢꜱ, ɪ ᴀᴍ ꜰᴀɪʀʟʏ ꜱᴜʀᴇ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ʟɪɴᴄᴏʟɴ ᴅɪᴅ ᴀ ꜱᴀᴅᴅᴀᴍ/ɢᴀᴅᴅᴀꜰꜰɪ ᴛᴜʀɴɪɴɢ ᴏɴ ʜɪꜱ ʜᴀɴᴅʟᴇʀꜱ ɪɴ ꜰᴀᴠᴏʀ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ɴᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟ ɪɴᴛᴇʀᴇꜱᴛ, ᴀᴛ ʟᴇᴀꜱᴛ ᴛᴏ ꜱᴏᴍᴇ ᴅᴇɢʀᴇᴇ ɪɴ ᴀʟʟ ᴄᴀꜱᴇꜱ, ᴀɴᴅ ꜱᴀᴛᴏꜱʜɪ ɴᴀᴋᴀᴍᴏᴛᴏ ᴅɪꜱᴀᴘᴘᴇᴀʀᴇᴅ ᴅɪʀᴇᴄᴛʟʏ ɪɴ ʀᴇꜱᴘᴏɴꜱᴇ ᴛᴏ Gᴀᴠɪɴ Aɴᴅʀᴇᴇꜱᴇɴ ʀᴇʟᴀʏɪɴɢ ᴀɴ ɪɴᴠɪᴛᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ꜰʀᴏᴍ ᴛʜᴇ CIA. ꜱᴏ, ɪɴ ᴀʟʟ ᴄᴀꜱᴇꜱ, ꜱᴘᴏᴏᴋꜱ ᴡᴇʀᴇ ɪɴᴠᴏʟᴠᴇᴅ ᴀɴᴅ ɪɴ ᴍᴏꜱᴛ ᴄᴀꜱᴇꜱ, ᴛʜᴇ ᴘᴇʀꜱᴏɴ ɪɴ ǫᴜᴇꜱᴛɪᴏɴ ᴡᴀꜱ ᴀꜱꜱᴀꜱꜱɪɴᴀᴛᴇᴅ. ɪ ᴘᴇʀꜱᴏɴᴀʟʟʏ ᴛʜɪɴᴋ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ꜱᴀᴛᴏꜱʜɪ ᴡᴀꜱ ɪɴ ꜰᴀᴄᴛ Lᴇɴ Sᴀꜱꜱᴀᴍᴀɴ, ᴀɴᴅ ʜᴇ ᴡᴀꜱ ꜱᴜɪᴄɪᴅᴇᴅ. ᴛʜɪꜱ ᴀʟꜱᴏ ʜᴀᴘᴘᴇɴᴇᴅ ᴛᴏ Bʀᴇɪᴛʙᴀʀᴛ, ɪᴛ ʜᴀᴘᴘᴇɴᴇᴅ ᴛᴏ Iᴀɴ Mᴜʀᴅᴏᴄʜ, ᴀɴᴅ ʟɪᴋᴇʟʏ, ᴇᴠᴇɴ Hᴀɴꜱ Rᴇɪꜱᴇʀ ᴡᴀꜱ ᴀᴛ ʟᴇᴀꜱᴛ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ᴀᴛᴛᴀᴄᴋᴇᴅ ᴠɪᴀ ʜɪꜱ ᴡɪꜰᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴘᴏꜱꜱɪʙʟʏ ᴘᴏɪꜱᴏɴᴇᴅ ᴏʀ ᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴡɪꜱᴇ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ ᴛᴏ ʙᴇᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴄʀᴀᴢʏ ᴛʜᴀɴ ʜɪꜱ ɴᴀᴛᴜʀᴀʟ ꜱᴇʟꜰ ᴛᴏ ꜱʜᴜᴛ ʜɪᴍ ᴅᴏᴡɴ ᴡɪᴛʜ ʜɪꜱ ᴡᴏʀᴋ ᴏɴ ʀᴇɪꜱᴇʀꜰꜱ 4. ɪ ꜱᴏᴍᴇᴛɪᴍᴇꜱ ᴡᴏɴᴅᴇʀ ɪꜰ ɪ ᴡᴏᴜʟᴅ ʙᴇ ꜱᴜᴄʜ ᴀ ᴛᴀʀɢᴇᴛ ʙᴜᴛ ɪ ᴡɪʟʟ ᴊᴜꜱᴛ ꜱᴀʏ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ꜱɪɴᴄᴇ ᴀɴ ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴇɴᴄᴇ ɪ ʜᴀᴅ ᴏɴ ᴘꜱɪʟᴏᴄʏʙɪɴ ɪɴ 2004, ɪ ᴄᴏᴍᴘʟᴇᴛᴇʟʏ ʀᴇꜱᴏʟᴠᴇᴅ ʟᴀᴛᴇɴᴛ ᴍᴏᴏᴅ ᴅɪꜱᴏʀᴅᴇʀ ɪ ʜᴀᴅ ᴅᴇᴠᴇʟᴏᴘᴇᴅ ʟɪᴋᴇʟʏ ᴅᴜᴇ ᴛᴏ ꜰʟᴜᴏʀɪᴅᴇ ᴀɴᴅ ʙʀᴏᴍɪɴᴇ ꜰɪʀᴇ ʀᴇᴛᴀʀᴅᴀɴᴛꜱ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ɪ ᴇxᴘᴏꜱᴇᴅ ᴍʏꜱᴇʟꜰ ᴛᴏ ɪɴ ᴍʏ ᴄʜɪʟᴅʜᴏᴏᴅ - ɪᴇ, ᴇᴀᴛɪɴɢ ᴛᴏᴏ ᴍᴀɴʏ ꜰʟᴜᴏʀɪᴅᴇ ᴘɪʟʟꜱ, ᴀɴᴅ ʙᴜʀɴɪɴɢ ᴘʟᴀꜱᴛɪᴄ ᴡɪᴛʜ ᴀ ᴍᴀɢɴɪꜰʏɪɴɢ ɢʟᴀꜱꜱ - ʙʏ ꜱᴜᴘᴘʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛɪɴɢ ɪᴏᴅɪɴᴇ, ꜰᴏʀ 3 ʏᴇᴀʀꜱ ᴀʀᴏᴜɴᴅ 2005-2008, ᴀꜱ ᴡᴇʟʟ ᴀꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ᴜɴᴅᴇʀꜱᴛᴀɴᴅɪɴɢ ɪ ᴅᴇᴠᴇʟᴏᴘᴇᴅ ᴏɴ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴛʀɪᴘ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ɴɪɢʜᴛ, ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪ ʀᴇᴀʟɪꜱᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴏᴏᴍ ꜰᴇᴇʟɪɴɢ ᴏꜰ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴜɪᴄɪᴅᴀʟ ɪᴅᴇᴀᴛɪᴏɴ, ᴡᴀꜱ ᴇꜱꜱᴇɴᴛɪᴀʟʟʏ ᴀ ᴋɪɴᴅ ᴏꜰ ᴘꜱʏᴄʜᴏꜱɪꜱ ᴀʀᴏᴜɴᴅ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ᴀʙʟᴇ ᴛᴏ ꜱᴇᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ꜰᴜᴛᴜʀᴇ. ᴡʜɪᴄʜ ɪ ᴀʟꜱᴏ ꜰᴜʀᴛʜᴇʀ ʀᴇɪɴꜰᴏʀᴄᴇᴅ ᴍʏꜱᴇʟꜰ ᴀɢᴀɪɴꜱᴛ ᴀꜰᴛᴇʀ ᴍᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴᴋɪɴɢ ᴀɴᴅ ᴡʀɪᴛɪɴɢ ᴏɴ ᴍᴇᴛʜ ᴀʙᴏᴜᴛ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴜʙᴊᴇᴄᴛ ᴏꜰ ᴅᴇᴛᴇʀᴍɪɴɪꜱᴍ ᴀɴᴅ ꜰᴀᴛᴇ. ɪɴ ꜰᴀᴄᴛ, ꜰᴜʀᴛʜᴇʀ ᴘʀᴏᴄᴇꜱꜱᴇꜱ ᴏᴄᴄᴜʀʀᴇᴅ ᴀʟꜱᴏ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ʀᴇɪɴꜰᴏʀᴄᴇ ᴍʏ ꜱᴇʟꜰ-ᴘʀᴇꜱᴇʀᴠᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ʜᴀᴘᴘᴇɴᴇᴅ ʙᴇᴛᴡᴇᴇɴ 2014 ᴀꜰᴛᴇʀ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ʀᴇʟᴇᴀꜱᴇᴅ ꜰʀᴏᴍ ᴘʀɪꜱᴏɴ ꜰᴏʀ ᴅᴀʀᴋᴡᴇʙ ᴅʀᴜɢ ᴅᴇᴀʟɪɴɢ, ᴀɴᴅ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ʜᴏᴍᴇʟᴇꜱꜱ ɪɴ ᴀᴍꜱᴛᴇʀᴅᴀᴍ, ʟᴏꜱɪɴɢ ᴍʏ ᴘᴀꜱꜱᴘᴏʀᴛ ɪɴ ɪᴛᴀʟʏ ᴡʜɪʟᴇ ꜱᴇᴇᴋɪɴɢ ᴡᴀʀᴍᴇʀ ᴄʟɪᴍᴀᴛᴇ ɪɴ ꜱᴏᴜᴛʜᴇʀɴ ɪᴛᴀʟʏ ꜰᴏʀ ᴄɪᴛʀᴜꜱ ʜᴀʀᴠᴇꜱᴛ, ᴀɴᴅ ʜᴀᴠɪɴɢ ᴀ ꜰʀɪᴇɴᴅ, ꜱᴛʀᴀɴɢᴇ ᴇꜱᴘᴇʀᴀɴᴛᴏ ꜱᴘᴇᴀᴋɪɴɢ ʙᴀʜᴀɪ ᴅᴜᴛᴄʜ ɢᴜʏ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴘʀᴏᴍᴘᴛᴇᴅ ᴍᴇ ᴛᴏ ʟᴇᴀʀɴ ʜᴏᴡ ᴛᴏ ᴘʀᴀʏ. ɪꜰ ᴛʜɪꜱ ɪꜱɴ'ᴛ ᴇɴᴏᴜɢʜ ᴛᴏ ᴘʀᴏᴛᴇᴄᴛ ᴍᴇ ꜰʀᴏᴍ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ꜱᴜɪᴄɪᴅᴇᴅ, ʏᴏᴜ ᴡɪʟʟ ᴀʟʟ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ɪ ᴡᴀꜱ ꜱᴜɪᴄɪᴅᴇᴅ.

I am safe as long as no one realises that Den is short for Dennis. 🤞

JuSt sHoW yOuR fAcE yOu cOwArD

Exactly. Power speaks louder when the ego disappears. Ideas survive scrutiny better than people do—and anonymity lets the idea stand on its own. Satoshi understood that better than anyone.

Exactly. Power speaks louder when the ego disappears. Ideas survive scrutiny better than people do—and anonymity lets the idea stand on its own. Satoshi understood that better than anyone.